Come sail away, come sail away, come sail away with me… on a Reacher ship in an ocean of beads on a journey to Celebrant? (It’s a pity not to work in something about the river Styx, or that the song wasn’t done by Journey instead. Oh well.) Here we are on board, in this week’s Oathbringer reread! Adolin does some clever fashion alterations (I’m so proud of him) and begins questioning who he truly is, which can’t possibly bode well for the future… Also, Azure is enigmatic.
Reminder: we’ll potentially be discussing spoilers for the ENTIRE NOVEL in each reread—if you haven’t read ALL of Oathbringer, best to wait to join us until you’re done.
In this week’s reread there are references to Warbreaker in the Cosmere Connections section, so if you haven’t read it, best to give that section a pass. But if you haven’t read Warbreaker by now, you really need to correct that. Go read it! (After you finish this week’s discussion, of course.)
Chapter Recap
WHO: Adolin
WHERE: On board the Reacher ship; arrival at Celebrant
WHEN: 1174.2.4.4 (Two days after chapter 99)
On the ship to Celebrant, Adolin makes some adjustments to his clothing in order to look nicer. He has a brief discussion with Azure about duty and responsibility, then goes down below to fetch his “deadeye” spren before they arrive in Celebrant.
Beginnings
Title: Deadeye
“We’ll soon arrive. Let’s go get your deadeye.”
A: This is the first instance of the term “deadeye,” and I find it unutterably sad. It’s the way the spren all refer to any spren who are still bound to the Shardblade form as a result of the broken bonds of the Recreance, and it’s … kind of awful to see them in this form. IIRC, we never actually see any other such spren, so we can only assume from the name that they all have that look of scratched-off eyes. (Hey, if I get my wish that Adolin brings his Blade back to life, it would be pretty awesome to see her eyes return to normal!)
Heralds:
Shalash (Patron of Lightweavers, Herald of Beauty. Role: Artist. Attributes: Creative & Honest)
Vedel (Patron of Edgedancers. Role: Healer. Attributes: Loving & Healing)
L: So, Maya was an Edgedancer’s spren. That explains Vedel being here.
A: Sure does! I don’t see a lot of other healing going on, so… that’s all I’ve got. As for Shalash, Adolin’s costuming is truly a work of art! He’s very creative. Also, honest: twice, in his conversation with Ico, he notes that “rudeness doesn’t necessarily imply untruth” when speaking of uncomfortable things. He’s being sort of brutally honest with himself, as well—but we’ll talk about that below.
Icon:
The Shardbearer marks an Adolin POV. (Squeeee!)
Epigraph:
Moelach is very similar to Nergaoul, though instead of inspiring a battle rage, he supposedly grants visions of the future. In this, lore and theology align. Seeing the future originates with the Unmade, and is from the enemy.
—From Hessi’s Mythica, page 143
A: On the dry technical side, we’ve been given to understand that the death rattles Taravangian has been pursuing so assiduously are the result of Moelach’s presence. As “visions of the future” go, they’re really quite useless IMO; you can’t tell what they’re predicting until you can look at the event in hindsight. How Taravangian & Team use them to update, correct, and interpret the Diagram is totally beyond me. I can’t help wondering what else Moelach does besides give visions to dying people.
But there’s another aspect to this, and that’s whether “seeing the future” really does originate with Odium.
L: Is this the reason why Renarin can see the future, then? Because his spren is corrupted by the Unmade?
A: That’s the big question, and we don’t have a solid answer yet. We know, from one of Dalinar’s visions, that Odium is not the only Shard who can see into the future; Honor himself could, some, and he claimed that Cultivation was much better at it. IMO, the Truthwatchers always had some future sight—not necessarily all of them to the same extent, but I believe it was part of their skillset. I suppose I might be prejudiced on that, since I like Renarin and don’t want his special skills to come from Odium, but as far as I know, there’s no reason for Honor to lie about it. At the same time, Glys has been touched by Sja-anat, so… who’s to say?
One thing I’m now curious about, though: is it possible that Cultivation has deliberately downplayed her ability to see the future? Did she encourage the Truthwatchers to hide it from the others, so that in the end virtually no one realizes what she (and/or they) can do? Is this another of her “long game” moves, hiding things from Odium so that he doesn’t know the weapons she can range against him?
L: Or… OR… (and this is REALLY tin-foil-theory-y), what if Sja-Anat had corrupted the Truthwatcher spren all along?
A: Uh… that would be sort of creepy… My first thought is that of course she hadn’t because Jasnah has a drawing of what a Truthwatcher spren is supposed to look like, and it ain’t like Glys. But… Glys is able to hide when he doesn’t want to be seen. Would it be reasonable that, as a race, they tend to stay hidden, so that no one would know if some of them were corrupted even though most weren’t? On the other hand, that would mess with my own tin-foil theory that Cultivation has just as much future vision as Odium, but she’s hiding it. Hmm.
Seriously, though, there’s a whole starving lot we don’t know—about Cultivation, about Moelach, about death rattles, about Sja-anat, about Truthwatchers, about seeing the future… We’re just guessing at this point.
Hey, did you notice that the Rhythm of War progress bar is up to 73%?
Relationships & Romances
“You are not to be blamed. Betraying oaths is simply your nature, as a human.”
“You don’t know my father,” Adolin said.
L: Oof. Oh, Adolin. I love how highly he thinks of his father, but I am terrified to see what happens when the truth comes out about Rathalas. Because you know it’s going to eventually.
A: It is going to come out, for sure. But I’m not sure, in any of Dalinar’s past, that you can point to a situation where he broke an oath. His actions at Rathalas, horrific as they were (especially to our eyes), weren’t really that far outside Alethi norms, and didn’t break any rules he’d ever sworn to follow. The only possible “rule” I can see him breaking is in refusing to hear the parley envoy—which obviously would have changed things dramatically—but no one seemed particularly shocked at the time.
On the other hand, he did participate in covering up what really happened to Evi, right up until he went to the Nightwatcher and forgot it. Not a broken oath, but not honesty either.
“I look terrible, don’t I?… No makeup, with hair that hasn’t been washed in days, and now wearing a dumpy set of worker’s clothing.”
“I don’t think you’re capable of looking terrible. … In all their color, even those clouds can’t compete.”
A: Obligatory d’awww… but the best part is, he doesn’t just say stuff like that to make her feel better. He really means it. That’s what I love about these two.
Come to think of it, that’s one of the biggest things I love about Adolin in everything—whatever he does or says, he’s completely genuine. That’s probably why he’s so bothered by not telling Dalinar about Sadeas—he’s not a disingenuous person by nature, and it preys on him to try to keep secrets from those he trusts.
Places & Peoples
L: I honestly have no clue where to put this discussion regarding Adolin and fashion, so I’m just going to drop it here, since I’m making some broad societal comments.
He rolled the sleeves of the jacket up to match, approximating an old style from Thaylenah. … It needed a waistcoat. Those, fortunately, weren’t too hard to fake. Ico had provided a burgundy coat that was too small for him. He removed the collar and sleeves, stitched the rough edges under, then slit it up the back.
L: I just continuously adore Adolin for his fashion sense. In a society that is so stereotypically masculine in most regards, an appreciation and love for fashion seems, to us, to be a very feminine trait. We certainly don’t see any other male Alethi who are as interested in it as Adolin is.
A: Well, there are a lot of mentions in The Way of Kings about other fashionable young men, and even a couple about Sadeas using “fashion” (as in, his coat buttons) to make a wordless but pointed comment to Dalinar. But Adolin is undoubtedly the best at fashion, and the one most committed to it.
L: And he is unabashedly in love with fashion. As in most respects of his life, he makes no excuses for the things he loves. He is who he is, and storms take anyone who doesn’t like it. Case in point:
“Did you really sew that?” she asked.
“There wasn’t much sewing involved,” Adolin said. “The scarf and jacket hide most of the damage I did to the waistcoat—which used to be a smaller jacket.”
“Still,” she said. “An unusual skill for a royal.”
A: I loved that bit. It’s so easy to assume that, as a royal, he’s totally accustomed to having servants do everything for him. How much of his ability to do things for himself is a matter of really not having all that many servants around, and how much might be because he trusts his tailor and himself and no one else, we don’t know. But he can take care of his own clothes, and I find that both hilarious and endearing.
“Very nice,” Ico said. “You look like an honorspren going to a Feast of Light.”
A: I still don’t know whether this is a compliment or an insult…
Tight Butts and Coconuts
Kaladin gaped at Adolin…. That befuddled expression alone made the work worthwhile.
“How?” Kaladin demanded. “Did you sew that?”
Adolin grinned.
L: I will never get over how much I love these two.
A: This was priceless.
“I see. And are you enigmatic on purpose, or is it kind of an accidental thing?”
A: LOL. The snark is strong with this one.
Weighty Words
King. Was Adolin a king? Surely his father would decide not to continue with the abdication, now that Elhokar had passed.
L: And so we begin this little arc of Adolin’s, in which he has to seriously consider whether or not he has what it takes (or if he even wants) to be king. Personally, I think he would make an amazing king. It’s often those who don’t want power who are most worthy of having it. Adolin displays a staggering amount of empathy and care for the common people of Alethkar (and the world in general), and since he’s not a Knight Radiant, he has less conflicts of interests than, say, the person who actually does wind up in charge. (Not that I am saying that I don’t think that Jasnah will make a good ruler, I’m just thinking that Adolin might have made a better one.)
A: This is a tough thing to consider. I can’t really second-guess Sanderson on the way he’s choosing to write the book, but from “in-world” I totally agree. I think Adolin would make a much better king than he thinks he would
L: We continue these thoughts below:
More, he felt his own growing worry that he might actually have to take the throne. He’d grown up knowing it could happen, but he’d also grown up wishing—desperately—that it never would. In his quiet moments, he’d assumed this hesitance was because a king couldn’t apply himself to things like dueling and… well… enjoying life.
L: It’s totally understandable for Adolin to fear change, to fear the heightened level of responsibility that being a ruler would bring. But I think higher of him than he seems to think of himself. Adolin has always stepped up and faced new difficulties with grace. I believe that, if called upon to rule, he would do an amazing job at it.
What if it went deeper? What if he’d always known inconsistency lurked within him? He couldn’t keep pretending he was the man his father wanted him to be.
L: Then we get to this. I think a lot of this is stemming from what happened with Sadeas. Before then, he’d been the model son and soldier. But killing Sadeas made Adolin realize that there’s something deeper within him. I’m not sure if I would classify it as an inconsistency, so much as an independent streak when it comes to doing what needs to be done regardless of the morality.
Buy the Book
Fate of the Fallen
A: Right on. IMO, this is another false binary, but one Adolin creates for himself. He thinks he’s “inconsistent,” but that’s only because he feels he’s pretending to be the man Dalinar wants him to be. At present it’s wrapped around killing Sadeas, and he thinks that makes him “not the man his father wants him to be.” But what I’m seeing in him is a man striving to live up to his own ideals; he thinks of it as trying to be what Dalinar wants, but I can’t recall him doing anything he didn’t think was the right thing to do. Of course his ideals are shaped by Dalinar’s ideals, but they’re also shaped by Evi’s training, and in neither case does it make them less his own. (There’s also the disconnect between Dalinar’s expectations now vs. Dalinar’s expectations when his son was young; if you want “inconsistent,” there it is. It stands to reason that Adolin was shaped as much or more by the Blackthorn as by the proto-Bondsmith, and the Blackthorn wouldn’t have had any problem over getting in a murderous fight with a declared enemy in a dark alley. It’s the Bondsmith that might have trouble with that.)
So I don’t think he’s inconsistent. He just doesn’t realize that he’s not actually pretending most of the time. And really, it’s not a bad thing to be the man he is, instead of what (he thinks) his father wants him to be.
“Sometimes, the best way to do your duty is to let someone else—someone more capable—try carrying it.”
Such a foreign idea. Sometimes you took up a duty that wasn’t yours, but abandoning one? Just … giving it to someone else?
He found himself musing on that.
A: Wow, is that ever going to come back around! That’s exactly what he ends up doing when he declares that he won’t be king, and I can’t help thinking this was the moment the seed was planted for that decision. Whether it was “the best way to do his duty,” time will tell. As you say, Lyndsey, Jasnah will probably make a good queen. But Adolin would probably be a much better—and more effective—king than he realizes. It will be interesting to see how it plays out, and I hope we get to see Azure’s reaction.
“But humans will betray trust if it is given to them.” The spren frowned, then seemed to grow embarrassed, looking away. “That was rude.”
“Rudeness doesn’t necessarily imply untruth though.”
“I did not mean an insult, regardless. You are not to be blamed. Betraying oaths is simply your nature, as a human.”
L: Interesting to note the spren’s thoughts here. I think the spren have some sort of supernatural bond which literally prevents them from breaking oaths. When viewing humans, for which this is a choice, I can see how it would be confusing and frustrating for them. Like trying to explain to someone how gravity is infallible, when the person in question can choose to ignore it.
A: Heh. Yes, indeed. The Stormfather has commented on this in the past, iirc. It’s not so much that there’s a bond which prevents the spren from breaking oaths, though; it’s more that they just… can’t. It would be like water deciding not to be wet any longer. As personifications of ideas, they literally cannot be what they are not – which would make humans really bizarre creatures from their perspective.
Cosmere Connections
“And how many royals have you known?”
“More than some might assume.”
L: ::snicker::
“The throne was better served by someone who enjoyed sitting on it.”
“Duty isn’t about what you enjoy. It’s about doing what is demanded of you, in serving the greater good. You can’t just abandon responsibility because you feel like it.”
A: He has a valid point. Duty is not dependent on emotion. Reflecting on the events from Warbreaker that she’s referencing, though, I think Azure stated her point badly. Siri’s primary qualification as queen was not merely that she enjoyed her position, but that she was better suited to it, both by (lack of) training, and by temperament. Vivenna really would have been a terrible queen, given the circumstances; all the assumptions about the political situation had shaped her education in ways completely inimical to dealing with the truth. The effects on both Hallandren and Idris would have been even more devastating with her in Siri’s place. She’d probably have been an acceptable queen for Hallandren in another setting, and almost certainly she’d have been an excellent queen for Idris, but that wasn’t needed either.
“I can’t help feeling that [the Wall Guard] is merely one in a long string of duties abdicated, of burdens set down, perhaps to disastrous results.” For some reason, she put her hand on the pommel of her Shardblade when she said that. … “But of all the things I’ve walked away from, the one I don’t regret is allowing someone else to rule. Sometimes, the best way to do your duty is to let someone else – someone more capable – try carrying it.”
A: Oh, Vivenna. What have you been doing since we saw you in Warbreaker? The comment about letting someone more capable do the job refers to the fact that Siri was better at being Susebron’s queen than she would have been. But … what are the other duties that make up a “long string”? And what is the story behind her sword??? I really want that sequel.
A Scrupulous Study of Spren
Ico studied him with metal eyes—bronze, with holes for pupils, like Adolin had seen done for some statues. Even the spren’s hair appeared sculpted in place. Ico could almost have been a Soulcast king from an age long past.
L: Man, did I miss it before when he was described as being made of metal? Because I don’t remember it and this is really cool.
“I wish you hadn’t locked her in here,” Adolin said, stooping down to peer through the squat doorway.
“Can’t have them on deck,” Ico said. “They don’t watch where they’re walking and fall off.”
L: Poor things. So I suppose they can’t see or sense their surroundings at all, then… I’m curious as to exactly how this happened, since it’s a trait they all apparently share. Did they scratch out their own eyes, or did something else do it to them? If the latter… what?
“Can’t stand the thought of him wandering around somewhere,” Ico said, eyes forward. “Have to keep him locked away though. He’ll go searching for the human carrying his corpse, otherwise. Walk right off the deck.”
L: I wonder if they all go looking for their corpses, and if so, if they are trying to cross over between the realms or if they just… wander through Shadesmar, mirroring the location of their bearers. It’s really sad… especially when you consider the fact that with the way the land/sea is reversed, that means most of the deadeyes are just wandering around on the bottom of the bead sea somewhere.
A: Well, there’s an image… and one that makes me even sadder for these poor spren. But what happens when they’re summoned, then? Do they disappear from Shadesmar? Do they just go catatonic for the duration? If Ico is able to keep his father locked up on the ship, does that mean that no one has bonded him? Or does he somehow return to the same location when his Blade form is dismissed? The fact that Maya was physically present with Adolin as soon as they transferred to Shadesmar, despite the fact that he’d not been holding his Shardblade at the time, argues that they do tend to stay in the same vicinity. I wonder … but I’m going to break my brain if I think about it too hard.
“My daughter used to work there, before she ran off chasing stupid dreams.”
L: I’m really curious as to whether or not this is a spren we’ve seen somewhere, or will see eventually.
A: The most popular theory I know (starting with the beta, and continuing through the fandom till now) holds that his daughter is Timbre, the spren who was beginning to bond with Eshonai, and currently rides around in Venli’s pouch.
Next week we will be tackling chapter 102 all on its lonesome. Join us then, and as always, in the comments section below!
Alice is now entering the Pacific Northwest season of the Weeping. Unlike Roshar’s four weeks, hers will last six or seven months….
Lyndsey is going to miss all of her Renaissance Faire friends dearly, but she has to admit that it’s going to be nice to sleep in a real bed on the weekends again instead of in a tent. If you’re an aspiring author, a cosplayer, or just like geeky content, follow her work on Facebook or Instagram.
Is it just me or is the chapter icon not showing up?
Adolin and Shallan Kholin for the win!
Adolin is such a good character honestly
Austin – not just you. At least, I can’t see it on mobile. I’ll look into it.
I thought it was all but confirmed that Timbre is Ico’s daughter? Timbre mentions that her grandfather was a Radiant spren near the end of the book.
Not just the spren (splinters of various Shards) but the Shards themselves. I believe the Stormfather explains this later in the book.
@@.-@ Kefka
The evidence does certainly stack up in favor of that.
If Adolin does not like to keep secrets from those he trusts, I hope nobody asks Adolin to throw a surprise birthday party Adolin’s friends or family.
Count me as a supporter of the Timbre is Tico’s daughter theory. I hope in Book 4 (if it is Eshonai’s back story) we may get a flashback where Timbre first encounters Eshoanai. I want to know how Timbre ended up in a position where she began to bond with Eshoanai. As opposed to seeking out a like-minded human.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
I mean, Timbre is the only Lightspren that’s played a significant role outside of this sequence, so if she’s not Ico’s daughter, then we haven’t met Ico’s daughter.
I’m also very curious about why Vivenna holds her sword when talking about how she’s abandoned duties to disastrous results. Is it related to the fact that she apparently carried Nightblood for awhile? It could just be her remembering the sword she doesn’t have anymore, but given how cagey and mysterious she is about her current weapon, I’m not inclined to believe it’s that simple.
You know, something I just noticed: When a Shardblade kills someone, their eyes burn out, and now that we see deadeyes, they have scratched-out eyes. I wonder if there’s a relation there.
As for the Truthwatchers, I always assumed they kept their visions hidden to keep from changing what they see by accident. We saw Vin do that to Zane back in Mistborn, and on the sort of timescales the Truthwatchers work on that would be a much bigger risk.
Concerning Queenship.
Adolin would make a very good King in normal circumstances, but as Dalinar rightly put, in normal circumstances Gavinor would be crowned and Adolin would make a decent regent too.
At the moment there is no Alethkar, there is Alethkar in exile at Urithiru. For this setting Jasnah’s proficiency and experience in intrigue and politics is the one important trait and her scholarly knowledge should not be scoffed at either.To exploit that in full she must have power of office and responsibility. Consulting does not suffice in these turbulent times, it means, she could be absent, when matters turn critical.
For Adolin the murder of Sadeas would be like a stone slowly dragging him under.
Both things will be even more eminent, if (when?) news comes to Urithiru, that Jalai has defected to Odium and has been reinstated as highprince of Sadeas.
On the flipside (fourth wall breaking), it frees Adolin to seek out his Riran heritage.
It would be just odd writing to mention that a light spren wandered off, and that the only light spren we see mentions a grandfather who was used by humans. Timbre has to be the captain’s daughter. It is clear though, that she blames humans but she knows the radiants has return, so she goes to the ones who DIDN’T betray them, at least in her eyes.
One of the duties Vivenna feels she abandoned is probably carrying Nightblood. She is chasing it now because she regrets letting it cause trouble in other hands.
I agree that being a royal would seem to make it odd that Adolin can sew but since he is also a soldier and a horseman then not so odd. Both cases could require battlefield repairs that meant sewing leather or other equipment. Dalinar would have made Adolin learn all the things other soldiers did. Then there is his fondness of fashion, he could have learned as a hobby.
Maybe someone who knows Brandon (like beta readers hint, hint) could suggest that if WB II is not to be then at least a timeline with critical events could be created. It would list things like where Vivienna traveled and when she lost Nightblood. That way we’d know when she and Vasher split and when her sword was created.
@12: I agree! I think something happened with Nightblood and that is part of why Vivenna is chasing it (and Vasher).
@11 You could be right, but the daughter could also be another character that we meet later.
I am really interested to learn more about the Truthwatchers (and really, all of the orders!).
Re: Adolin as King. I think that Adolin definitely has traits and abilities that would make him a good king (a moral sense, courage, empathy, leadership), but I think his attention would be too divided at this point. After all, most of his family members are now Radiants, he and Shallan have just gotten married, his home has been invaded, and there is the murder of Sadeas. Plus his interests simply don’t align with being king; while a reluctance to take power might be beneficial in a leader (lack of greed, not power-hungry), it could also be a flaw.
And ultimately, I think Jasnah is the perfect person to be ruler in this situation. She has plenty of experience as a Radiant in addition to her personal talents, contacts, etc.
RE: Truthwatchers and seeing the future
I’m wondering how much difference there is between seeing the future (actual visions) and having jumps of logical insight (A can lead to C can lead to G). I think, in many ways, the latter is what happened to Taravangian when he created the Diagram.
Indeed, Leras also says it in secret history. Honor also states it, as soon as Odium is tricked into accepting a battle of champions, he has to hold onto it. And i think Taravangian says something like “hes bound by the rules of spren and gods”, when talking about his plans.
I also think, that this is why Odium is bound to the rosharan system. He needed an army and promised the Fused to give them back their world, thinking, that it would be done quickly, but then the oathpact was formed and the world was stuck in a cycle, where Odium couldnt claim the world for the fused, so he has to stay, till his Promise is fullfilled.
@Aeshdan:
Eyes are super-important on Roshar, and to a lesser extent throughout the Cosmere. Radiant eyes change color, deadeyes, Sja-Anat’s white eyes on Roshar. In general, Cosmere-wide red eyes mean “corrupted investiture” and are seen both here and in Mistborn Era 2. The Inquisitors of Scadrial have their eyes replaced by steel spikes.
@RogerPavelle
I continue to think that the Diagram is just Cultivation’s futuresight, which Taravangian is misinterpreting as intelligence after the Nightwatcher’s gift. When Odium grants him futuresight T. sees it as better than his own, but not different in kind, as I read that passage. Cultivation is clearly manipulating the heck out of the situation while remaining hidden from Odium.
The “deadeye” situation makes me wonder: what if the owner of a dead shardblade drowned and the blade sank to the bottom of a body of water? Given how the things are reversed in Shadesmar, would the deadeye be enclosed in the whatever firm substance corresponds to water there? What about the other objects submerged in water? Are their beads sort of incorporated? But then what happens on the Cognitive side if somebody lifts them out of it?
And how do things work with the living bonded Nahel spren? When their bondmates are in the physical realm, are the bonded spren bodies still partly in Shadesmar? If so, how can they hide from each other in the physical? How can the bonded honorspren “fly”?
Speaking of Mayalaran, it sure is lucky that no well-meaning relative locked _her_ up. Also, Shalash destroying the faces of the images representing her somewhat mimics the deadeye appearance, which could be an additional reason for her being one of this chapter’s Heralds.
Moelach – I kinda wonder if the death rattles don’t actually improve Odium’s future sight. Like, he hijacks something that Odium wouldn’t have normally had the access to. This would also fit with how the Dysian Aimian who killed Kaza the Soulcaster couldn’t trust even her dying victim with the secret of Akinah – presumably because Odium had the means to access that information in the interval between a person’s physical death and their passing to the Beyond.
I do think it likely that Cultivation, while good at future sight, doesn’t provide it to the Radiants. Her Intent is to personally direct the Growth and human clairvoyance would interfere with it. That’s also why Glys is effective, IMHO – because nobody expects it. If the Truthwatchers routinely had access to the future sight, then he would have been unneccessary.
I am also a bit dubious about the spren’s supposed inability to break their promises, because doesn’t Captain Notum tell Our Heroes later on that his crew wouldn’t be able to keep the secret of their destination if subjected to torture by the Fused? Also, how does it fit with the fact, also shared by him that most Radiant Oaths can be dissolved if a spren truly desires it?
I’d bet though that the poor Heralds expected to be given this supposed quality of the spren, when they volonteered for the Oathpact and then felt terribly betrayed when they remained human enough to be capable of breaking their oath.
“You are not to be blamed” is the ominous/odious tack for Ico to take.
When Azure/Vivenna talks about “allowing someone else to rule”, she is talking about the throne of Idris, BTW. After her father substituted Siri for her as the contract bride, there never was an opportunity for Vivenna to “not allow” Siri anything. But if she had remained home or returned to Idris after the events of Warbreaker, she would have been her father’s heir. Her brother only had this position because she was promised to the god-king, as is explicitely mentioned in the book.
Anyway, it seems to me that Vivenna gave Nightblood away/back and is now regretting it. Her talk about “long string of duties abdicated, of burdens set down, perhaps to disastrous results”, gives me hope that she is going to stick around on Roshar and try to make a difference. I really hope that she becomes a relatively important non-PoV character.
Personally, I disagree with Adolin’s decision about his unfitness to be king. In fact, I was rather disappointed by this outcome both for his own and for Jasnah’s sake.
There is a lot more to be said about Adolin, but I have to run. Too bad that Gepeto is not with us, when we have such a meaty Adolin chapter to muse over!
@Isilel:
Weather and seasons on Roshar are not like Earth’s, but what if a body of water on Roshar froze? Would its counterpart become liquid in Shadesmar?
@18: I am not entirely away, I am lurking, in the background. Truth to be told, I needed to take a break from this re-read due to personal reasons and I also had a crazy early fall which left me with considerablty less time to invest in the fandom.
I love this chapter, it is one of the rare chapters focusing on fleshing out Adolin’s character and it makes it unbelievably precious, to my eyes. I actually wanted to comment yesterday, but I was tired, so I watched an mind-numbing cooking show instead.
What I love here is the fact Brandon is bringing in confirmation for so many of my personal takes on Adolin’s character. Prior to OB, arguing Adolin had confidence issues, felt pressurized by his father’s expectations, and wasn’t too sure about the man he wanted to be was a hard task. Few readers bought into the argument as the signs Adolin did have those issues were considerably more subtle then the very “in your face” issues other characters were dealing with. That and the fact Adolin’s reaction to hardships is to drown himself into work, to ignore the issue, and to keep on focusing on the next task at hand while keeping a reassuring smile on his face. It looks healthy. It looks as if Adolin never knew what problems are, but it isn’t healthy. Not admitting your own personal issues, not knowing who you are, and having your entire sense of worth pass through what your father thinks is the opposite of healthy: appearing strong and healthy does not equate not having issues nor struggles. It is just… one way of copying, of dealing… or not dealing by pretending nothing ever happened or if it happened, you’re just too strong minded to acutally care… or the magic thinking wanting if you pretend not to care you will magically stop carying…
Anyway, facts now are, Adolin isn’t feeling too confident about himself at the moment and I love him for it. I love him for allowing other people to see what potentially hides being the confident smile, the arrogant stride, and the seemingly simplistic mindset.
Hence, I do personally believe the inconsistency Adolin feels is genuine and real. He has spent a lifetime doing his very best to have his father be proud of him and this meant being a Man of Honor who obeys the rules, the codes without ever breaking them. In this chapter, we see how he has, in the past, blame his reluctance over becoming a leader, a highprince, a king on a superficial personality. He didn’t want responsibilities because “he was young”, because “he wanted to have fun”, but in here Adolin comes to realize how much he has been lying to himself. We never actually see Adolin shove away duties nor shy away from work because “he preferred to party”, but Adolin still thought any sign he may not like where he is heading as the confirmation he must really, truly be a meaningless fop. And he was happy to entertain the lie, to play pretend, to shove any misgiving he had into this “carefree placeholder”.
But he can no longer play pretend, the game is over. He has broken the codes, he has proven himself not to be a Man of Honor, and worst, he fails to regret his actions. He would do it again, in a heartbeat thus reinforcing the growing chasm in him: he truly isn’t the son his father thought he was. He cannot abide by his father’s rules nor can he meet his expectations. He can’t because in every single alternate reality he probably plays in his head, he always, always, always murders Sadeas and fails to feel properly guilty about it. And then he lies to everyone about where he has been and what he has done.
So yes, there is an inconsistency because Adolin isn’t this strong, impertuable man who follows the precepts of Honor his father has wanted him to be. That’s where the inconsistency is: Adolin is more like Evi. He will disobey a direct order if his heart tells him he has to. He would have run to Rathalas to warn the city too. He would have done the same as his mother did. He would accept being labelled a traitor if it meant saving other people’s life. He doesn’t see Honor as a finality in itself whereas Dalinar believes there is this higher ideal he needs to follow, this code which dictates how he should behave, what he should do. Adolin just ends up being the man who isn’t going to follow such an abstract concept unless it falls in-line with his beliefs.
On Adolin being King: I think Adolin would have struggled becoming King for the simple reason he currently isn’t ready for it. He can hardly tell who he is and what he wants for himself, hence kingship is just too much responsibility then he is capable of endorsing, at the moment. Older Adolin could potentially become a great king, but not until he matures into his own being, not until he moves away from his father’s shadow, not until he learns to define himself outside of Dalinar’s views.
On Adolin and Fashion: My headcanon on his interest in fashion is quite unique. It takes root into the chapter where we see 12 years old Adolin carelessly remove his coat and then forgets all about it. I always thought this wasn’t the behavior I would expect out of a “fashion crazy” kid. Hence, I did end up thinking if young Adolin had an interest in fashion, back then, he would have certainly not seem to care so little about his clothes… Thus, I have decided his interest in fashion must have started later, after Evi died. So I made this headcanon where Adolin started to get interested in fashion when he realized it was a tool he could use to express himself without failling to meet everyone’s expectations of him. An outlet. A mean to escape. After all, he’s the one who tells Shallan clothes tell you a lot about a person, he knows because his clothing have always told a story about him, to those able to read it. So, still in my headcanon, that’s how he met the tailors, as a young teenager seeking escape from a dysfunctional household filled with an alcoholic father and an autistic brother. He ends up spending too much time at their place which is where he learned how to sow. Vivenna is right: royals do not sow their clothes, they do not know how to make a ourlet even if soldiers can meand tears, they cannot adjust clothes to make them look fashionable. Adolin can. Because the tailors showed him when he was young. And that’s why he trusts them, that’s why despite not seeing them for 7 years, Adolin still has this trust in them.
Because they were far more than “just tailors” to him even if he can’t explain it. But that’s a headcanon, nothing confirmed in the narrative, but a headcanon one which solves my issues with the tailors.
On Adolin and Rathalas: I have no idea what Brandon has written for Adolin in RoW, but I struggle to conceive the knowledge Dalinar has: 1) burned the Rift (it wasn’t Sadeas as Adolin believes), 2) killed Evi (accidentally, but still), and 3) lied to everyone about his role in the event will not impact Adolin in any visible ways at all. But we’ll see. Brandon hasn’t given out much when it comes to which character is playing which role in RoW.
I was happy to see fashionista Adolin again. After he chose to wear his plain uniform in Kholinar, I was afraid it was going to be one of those Putting Aside Childish Things things, where the character could never again interact with something they found joy in, because Time To Grow Up. I particularly liked his impish delight at Kaladin’s reaction.
This week’s was tough to read with all the splooshing over Adolin.
@17 Carl
Let me rephrase my question slightly. How do we know that this is actually futuresight (i.e. seeing visions of events that will happen in the future)? What if, instead, it is leaps of logic, similar to the way a chess player will see and plan based on what they expect the board to look like 5 moves later. The results may look the same to someone from the outside since you don’t have access to the thought process behind the logic.
@RogerPavelle:
I’m not certain what you mean. We don’t know lots of things at this point. I was just talking about my impression based on reading the books (and the rest of the Cosmere). An allomancer burning atium certainly has futuresight, so we know it’s possible. Are you doubting that Taravangian has futuresight, or that Cultivation does?
I can tell you (and I am certain Brandon knows) that projecting the future at the level of detail that (e. g.) Renarin does simply isn’t how logical projection can work. Complexity theory demonstrates it.
@24 Carl
I guess I am, in some ways, questioning whether futuresight actually exists since the future can be changed. Renarin’s visions don’t come true the way he saw them. An allomancer burning atium sees multiple possible futures and what each of them might lead to, which is why two mistborn burning atium cancel each other out [note: this actually becomes much closer to what I was talking about with logical projection since each action seen leads to a tree of possible reactions and the person chooses the line/path/branch where they see the result they prefer].
Maybe I’m just looking at this as a mechanism by which futuresight works. I don’t know. Hence the questions.
@23 and 25 RogerPavelle
We have some conflicting information on that. There is a WoB that says Taravangian has to do with the spiritual realm.
As to future sight on whole, it has been explained that future sight is like trying to look through the water to see the bottom. The further you try to see, the murkier it becomes. I believe it has to do with the whole issue of by looking at the future, you now have knowledge, that even if you did not actively take any action, your knowledge causes you to make unconcious actions you would not have taken otherwise. So the action of looking at the future, changes the future, thus potentially making what you just looked at inaccurate. Basically you are gambling. Everyone has a chance to change things, which is why the further you look, the harder it becomes. More and more permutations that can alter things.
I think there’s also Brandon’s occasional aphorism: the Rule of Cool. If futuresight working in one particular way leads to better stories, it will work that way, even if that makes zero sense.
That’s an exaggeration, but he has repeatedly said that he’ll go for cool over totally logical every time.
@Gepeto – ah, I love that head canon :)
While Adolin might be a good king, I do take issue with the general aphorism that ‘those who least want to rule are the ones most suited to it’. Some people simply may really not want the responsibility or to have to worry about others and broader consequences or social issues. Or, may recognize very real personality traits that would prevent them from doing a good job with those responsibilities (not even moral failings, just…general traits.)
Adding to the eye symbolism – isn’t the symbol of the Almighty also a double eye?
@Lisamarie: “Adding to the eye symbolism – isn’t the symbol of the Almighty also a double eye?” Sure is, good point.
Gepeto @20:
Yea, Adolin is clearly a Man of Cultivation, rather than Honor! And I like the idea that fashion is for him a form of self-expression in a culture where expressiveness is severely limited in a number of ways. Could Evi have been the one to teach him stitching, perhaps?
Lisamarie @28:
Yea, Louis XVI famously didn’t like being king, but felt that it was his sacred duty and the rest is history. But Adolin has genuine leadership talent, IMHO.
@27 Carl
Makes sense. As future sight does not actually exist to draw upon, and it seems to manifest differently from world to world and power to power, I would easily believe that Sanderson would lean on the rule of cool in that circumstance.
@28: Thanks! I made this headcanon because it helped me have a plausible scenario to justify Adolin’s trust in his tailors. It doesn’t contradict the canon though it uses an interpretation of it not all readers have. Nothing is said as when and how Adolin learn how to sow nor when and how he started being interested in fashion. Hence, I used some of the narrative elements to make a headcanon I think is consistent with the canon and solves an issue I had with the narrative.
@30: Evi teaching Adolin how to sow is a theory I have seen elsewhere. I know a lot of readers do like it and it is consistent with the canon too, but in order to reinforce the relationship Adolin has with his tailors, I like the idea it comes from them. I do think Adolin has hinted a few times how fashion has been a way to express himself. In WoK, he does state he had once loved crafting himself a style to fit his mood. In OB, he explains how he thinks what a person chooses to wear tells something about this person. Hence, I think this is ample proof Adolin sees fashion as a means to voice out… something and I thought, after Evi, a part of him died too and this part is the one he still tried to express through his clothes.
I personally like that Adolin gave up the kingship no matter how good he would have been nor how much leadership he has. I find him not being tied to the kingship will give him more leeway for future growth, more possibilities.